Russia's Jewish Covid Tsar Ginzburg says clotshot obsolete; they have a new one now
Could Russia have avoided the lockdown? When will Sputnik V from the new strain appear? Interview with Gunzburg
Academician Ginzburg spoke about the lessons to be learned from the pandemic
Alexander Ginzburg | Артем Геодакян/ТАСС
Artem Geodakyan/TASS
Clinical trials of Sputnik V, adapted for the new strain of coronavirus XBB-1.5 (“Kraken”), are underway in Moscow. According to the academician, the existing version of Sputnik “has ceased to protect at all.” The new version of the vaccine may enter civilian circulation by March 2024. Whether it will still be relevant and how to vaccinate against COVID-19 now, Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, head of the Gamaleya Center Alexander Gintsburg told Gazeta.Ru.
— Alexander Leonidovich, is the COVID-19 pandemic over?
- No. It is, of course, not completed. We have been living with COVID-19, which is constantly present in the human population, for almost four years now. At the same time, it is not just present, but adapts very well, constantly evolving, changing its antigenic structure. And therefore, it partly changes its manifestations, that is, the infectious process, the severity of the disease.
— And yet, the course of the virus has become easier?
“Indeed, it has become easier, but the virus, as before, penetrates most human cells.And the long-term consequences of long-term COVID-19 remain the same. That is, the number of heart attacks and strokes that occur due to infection with this virus has not decreased at all.
— Can the original Sputnik V, which was made based on the Wuhan variant of coronavirus, still protect people from the current strain of SARS-CoV-2?
— The original Sputnik V protected you and me from COVID-19 for the first two years, that is, from the moment of registration, from August 2020 until about July 2022. Since mid-summer 2022, when Omicron variants 1, 2 and 3 appeared, the efficiency of Sputnik V has dropped eightfold. And when “omicron” 4, 5 appeared, the efficiency dropped by a factor of 20.And when the XBB.1.5 version of the “omicron” (“kraken”) appeared - this was in January 2023 - Sputnik simply stopped protecting completely. Therefore, it was necessary to change the antigenic composition of the vaccine last summer.
— As far as I know, clinical trials of the new version of Sputnik V are currently underway, which is based on the XBB.1.5 variant. Why wasn't this done earlier?
“We had vaccine options ready in the laboratory, we vaccinated our employees and even, in some ways, we feel uncomfortable - we protected ourselves, but did not protect the country. But it's not our fault. It is necessary that all Russian healthcare structures be prepared for the fact that vaccine variants need to be released quickly - and even faster than we did the original Sputnik V.
But, indeed, we are now conducting clinical trials of the updated Sputnik based on XBB.1.5, and will finish them on December 10.
— Does this mean that on the 11th people will already be able to be vaccinated with the new Sputnik?
— On December 10 we receive a registration certificate, but this does not mean that on the 11th we will be able to introduce the vaccine into civilian circulation. We must act in accordance with Federal Law 61. This means that on December 11 we will begin to develop batches and then test them, thereby pushing back the date for introducing the new vaccine into civilian circulation by another 2.5 months. That is, the new Sputnik will go into civilian use in March.
- But wait, by March 2024 there will already be a new variant of COVID-19?
— Yes, there is a possibility that in March this vaccine will no longer be very relevant or completely irrelevant. But we have to follow the law, right?
— Well, isn’t it possible to change the law, since it is clear that “omicron” is far ahead of such regulation?
“From my point of view, this is exactly the lesson of the pandemic that we must clearly learn and develop new rules in this regard. We absolutely cannot lag a year behind the constantly evolving virus with our developments.
— Will the vaccine based on XBB.1.5 be nasal?
- But this is also an interesting question. The fact is that after Denis Yuryevich Logunov vaccinated Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin intranasally, and the whole country saw this, the President verbally ordered to allocate money to the Gamaleya Center for extensive research of the nasal vaccine. This was in November 2021. And only three months ago we received good news from the Ministry of Health that there is money, we need to prepare an application for a state task. Of course, we quickly prepared and served it.But all allocated federal money, by law, must be approved by the Russian Academy of Sciences. So, the Russian Academy of Sciences wrote that it does not see any relevance in this.
- Wait, how is this? Does the Russian Academy of Sciences see no relevance at all in nasal vaccines? Or is it in this study of a specific future nasal vaccine based on XBB.1.5?
— We are talking about XBB.1.5. It was the new vaccine that was mentioned in the application. We received a review from the Russian Academy of Sciences on September 14, so now money for this research is blocked. But the RAS can also be understood. Of course, there are knowledgeable and educated people there who understand perfectly well that the nasal vaccine provides fundamentally new opportunities. Since it is administered into the nose, it provides sterile immunity. This means that a person who has been vaccinated in this way is not a further carrier of the pathogen. And the one who was vaccinated by injection is. That is, he protects himself, but he can release the virus from the nasopharynx and infect others. Therefore, from an epidemiological point of viewit is the nasal vaccine that breaks the chain of transmission. This is a fundamental question that has never been resolved in epidemiology.And based on adenovirus, this is the only technology in the world now that allows this to be done.
But RAS experts also believe that at the end of 2024 it is not possible to assess its effectiveness against coronavirus variants that will circulate in the future. And the study is designed for 16 months.
— But Pfizer and Moderna have changed the antigenic composition of their vaccines?
- Yes, they changed it a long time ago, of course. But we remade it even earlier - what we now offer is the second alteration. But we can’t release it into civilian circulation.
- Did they let you out?
- Naturally. The head of Pfizer, Albert Bourla, actually did a brilliant thing: when the American FDA (Food and Drug Administration) banned the old antigenic composition and said that only the new one should be administered to people, the head of Pfizer took out the entire old stock of drugs to Europe. He concluded an agreement with the EU , and they bought everything from him, since the European regulator only 5-6 months later introduced a ban on the old antigenic composition.
I think that economically this is an absolutely brilliant idea. This is who should have been given the Nobel Prize in Economics.
— That is, in Europe and the USA there is a second iteration of their vaccine?
- Yes. And soon, perhaps, a third one will be needed. And let me emphasize that there is fundamentally nothing new in changing the antigenic composition. We change the antigenic composition of the flu vaccine every year, and we treat this absolutely normally. But here the WHO took the main responsibility - it is leading this process. And we must deal with COVID-19 within the country. For some reason it suddenly turns out that this is more difficult to do.
— Now the period of colds has begun. How to vaccinate against COVID-19 now?
- It turns out that there is nothing. Except for Convasel and the Novosibirsk EpiVacCorona. These vaccines have registration certificates. We haven't heard anything about CoviVac for a long time.
— In some clinics in Moscow, as I found out, you can actually get vaccinated with Convasel, the FMBA vaccine made on the basis of the N-protein of coronavirus. Does this make sense?
— The N-protein of the coronavirus has now been well studied, thousands of articles have been written about it in the world, but in none of them will you find that the antibodies that are formed against the N-protein of the coronavirus are virus-neutralizing. Yes, antibodies are formed, but they have nothing to do with protection.
— If we return to the lessons of the pandemic, which WHO considers to be over, can we say, looking back, that lockdowns were not necessary?
- We need it, of course. In the absence of a vaccine, we are given nothing more than to use prehistoric means: self-isolation and a mask.
— The first lockdown was announced in Moscow , as I remember, on April 28, 2020. Is there really no vaccine yet?
— Gamaleya has already been to the institute. When on April 20, the Minister of Health Mikhail Murashko and I told Vladimir Vladimirovich about our successes for the first time , to be honest, at that moment I was already vaccinated. And if we imagine such a fantastic option that we could make a vaccine in 40-45 days, then we could indeed begin general vaccination in April. In this case, there would be no need to declare a lockdown; a lot of money would be saved.
— Is it possible to release a vaccine in such a short time?
“This is the main lesson of the pandemic, and now it is clear what to do when this happens again. Indeed, the time to bring the vaccine into civilian circulation can be reduced to 40-45 days. By the way, the leaders of our country, both Putin and Mishustin, write about this in all instructions. Real life demands this from us. What is needed for this? It is necessary to create a bank of vaccine prototypes against infections that are transmitted by airborne droplets.
— That is, this bank will contain prototypes of drugs using certified technology and all you need to do is insert a new strain?
- Yes. Prototypes, for example, based on the adenoviral technology we have developed, will be stored in the refrigerator in the form of canned food. When you have a microbiological complication of any nature, you do not need to re-create the vaccine, you need to get the right canned product from the refrigerator, open it, develop it and put it into public circulation. This can really be done in 40-45 days.
Why were we the first in the world to make a vaccine? Because in our refrigerator there was a vaccine against MERS - Middle East respiratory syndrome, also caused by coronavirus. Let me remind you that the MERS outbreak occurred in 2013.
— What is needed to create such a vaccine bank of prototypes?
— In order for it to function properly, we need another structure — the National Serum Bank. This bank should collect blood samples from citizens throughout the country.Thus, we see what pathogens are present in the country. This way we will be able to work without waiting for recommendations from WHO, which come very late, if at all. Having seen antibodies to a new pathogen with epidemic potential in blood samples, we will already know which canned food to open, which vaccine to make.
Two generations of directors of the Gamaleya Institute tried to convey the idea of the need to create a Serum Bank to the country's leadership. Now I'm trying.